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  • St Audoen's Church Cornmarket

    Thought this subject warranted it's own thread. Maybe good if the mods could transfer all previous info to here to allow our friend Neil Moxham and any others better access to the details of the subject.

    Thus far.......

    http://www.dublinforum.net/forum/sho...postcount=5230
    The original thread has been split due to its size. Super sized threads can cause database issues. 10,000 posts is the practical limit for a thread so we have split off and closed the original thread at that point. Please continue posting your photographs and comments on this thread. The original thread will remain viewable

    The original thread has been split due to its size. Super sized threads can cause database issues. 10,000 posts is the practical limit for a thread so we have split off and closed the original thread at that point. Please continue posting your photographs and comments on this thread. The original thread will remain viewable

    The original thread has been split due to its size. Super sized threads can cause database issues. 10,000 posts is the practical limit for a thread so we have split off and closed the original thread at that point. Please continue posting your photographs and comments on this thread. The original thread will remain viewable

    The original thread has been split due to its size. Super sized threads can cause database issues. 10,000 posts is the practical limit for a thread so we have split off and closed the original thread at that point. Please continue posting your photographs and comments on this thread. The original thread will remain viewable

    The original thread has been split due to its size. Super sized threads can cause database issues. 10,000 posts is the practical limit for a thread so we have split off and closed the original thread at that point. Please continue posting your photographs and comments on this thread. The original thread will remain viewable

    http://www.dublinforum.net/forum/sho...postcount=5239

    By Neil Moxham
    Researching the buildings around old St. Audoen's - does anyone know what was the function of the building built on to the side of the tower? The one with the three little windows here. In later photos it had a simpler gable roof. I'm guessing it wasn't part of the tenement buildings towards the street.
    Attached Files
    We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

  • #2
    Originally posted by neilmoxham View Post
    Researching the buildings around old St. Audoen's - does anyone know what was the function of the building built on to the side of the tower? The one with the three little windows here. In later photos it had a simpler gable roof. I'm guessing it wasn't part of the tenement buildings towards the street.
    No it wasn't part of the tenements on Cornmarket.

    I've had a good look into the church history and revealed that the little add on building you are interested in was an area known as Cromlyng.....and "St Ann's Workhouse", not a workhouse in the poor workhouse sense, but a workshop for the maintenance department of the Guild of Bakers (as in bread), who adopted St Ann as their patron and later morphed into the 'Guild of St Ann' (Est 1430 in St Aud's).

    It is also referred to as a 'Buttery'...... no, not to do with dairy produce, but a sort of small ante room or storeroom. And another time referred to as horse stables.

    All this around about 1430-1538 ish.

    Complicated ?.... it gets even more so lol......

    The workshop was in the basement of that little annex, and above that was accommodation for one person.....looks like it was first occupied by the Reverend Thadey Cor, who lived above the workshop, and is said to later have had a loft with stairs constructed above his quarters with a staircase leading up to said loft, at his own expense.

    The whole area where the other (Catholic) St Audeon's is a bit further east ?......was owned by the Blackenye or Blakeney family (1593)....and was leased with some dilapidated buildings and a tower, which were taken on by the guild and converted into accommodation for the priests...became known as the COLLEGE......as it became a popular and very busy parish at one time.

    The St Ann's Guild owned properties all round the city and further afield as in Kilmainham and Swords way.....but these once grand houses all around the church degenerated into slum tenements.........and unfortunately it all started to come crashing down for the church, round about 1740 when all the well off people of the parish moved outside of the city and by 1773, because of the declining congregation, the decision was made to remove the roof from the complete eastern end of the church.

    Fifty years later, the roof of St. Anne's Chapel was also removed. In the mid-19th century, the church was further restricted in size when the present east wall and window were built; the parishioners gaining access through the tower.

    As time went on the inside roofless derelict church was used to dry locals washing.....and later still it came under the Corporations charge and things started to improve, up to today when all roofs have been restored and a smart visitors center is up and running.

    PS; The house opposite the tower in your pic was also belonging to the church and used for accommodation.....

    Three of the bells in the tower are the oldest bells in Dublin....and the bells are still rung once a week, since the tower was stabilized back in 1983 ish.

    The clock in the tower today came from St Peter's church Aungier Street.

    Feel free to ask any questions and I'll do my best to help.
    We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

    Comment


    • #3
      This alternate view, shows the building was separate from the tenement fronting onto High Street / Cornmarket. And it shows the alternate roof you mentioned in your post.....seems this fits in with the info I came by where one of the priests named Thady Cor, he living above the Workshop / house, one time stables, raised the roof to create a loft with staircase, above his own living quarters.
      Attached Files
      We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

      Comment


      • #4
        Seems the church went through many transformations in its 600 odd year history, and one of them was the addition of the 'buttery' building, over what were originally some stables later converted into a workshop (workhouse) for use by the maintenance workers who looked after the 50 odd houses and shops in and around the church, and some further afield. Later a loft was added by the then resident Rev Thady Cor.....and this is probably why we see the difference in the tgwo photos.....one showing just one window and the other, I assume later one with three windows.

        Some more pix of the church.
        Attached Files
        We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

        Comment


        • #5
          This pic shows the 'side building' best, in relation to the tower and the tenement s on High St / Cornmarket.
          This is a NLI pic, dated 1968, which tells us the Loft and castellated top of the building had been removed by this time.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by DAMNTHEWEATHER; 24-05-2017, 05:09 PM.
          We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

          Comment


          • #6
            Map showing medieval Dublin and particularly the path around St Audoen's known as St Audoen's Lane and Street.... It seems it was St Audoen's Street down to the Archway and then on became St Audoen's Lane......Notice how the path stretches round the south side of the church.....that's important when working out exactly where the 'workshop' was and where Thadey Cor lived.
            Attached Files
            We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

            Comment


            • #7
              This is 1880 and shows the Priests House and St Audoen's Road / Lane across from the church. There was murder created over the blocking of the access to the quays, and it caused quite a rumpus at the time....It was eventually opened up and led around the church to St Audoen's Gate.
              Attached Files
              We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

              Comment


              • #8
                Here we have said St Audoen's Street / Lane all the way to St Audoen's Gate.
                Attached Files
                We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                  Here we have said St Audoen's Street / Lane all the way to St Audoen's Gate.
                  Breidge street has changed...
                  Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                    Here we have said St Audoen's Street / Lane all the way to St Audoen's Gate.
                    It has indeed....bit of a curve there, but all straight now.

                    This wonderful c1500 impression of the walled city clearly has the little single story, 'buttery' cum 'lean to' cum 'priests chamber' in situ, before the addition of the loft, built by Rev Thadey Cor at a later date......it was known officially in church records as a messuage called by the name "Old Crumlin".

                    It also shows the houses on the High Street.....also the absence of the later Catholic and second St Audoen's church which was built later on the grounds of the Blakeney's Inns, including a tower, which were exchanged for money and land in Swords belonging to (The bakers) St Ann's Guild.

                    James Blakeney's Inns became known as St Audoen's College, and housed a number of the clergy there.

                    We can also see the St Audoen's Road / Lane leading down to St Audoen's Gate, and the line of the old city wall.

                    Great detail, and nice to have...all thanks to Stephen Conlin and Mary MCMahon.

                    I'm still trying to pin down the dates for this structure....working on current knowledge that it was a form of basement stables then built over as a priests chamber, and later the loft addition, that we see in Neil's first photo posted.
                    Attached Files
                    We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                      It has indeed....bit of a curve there, but all straight now.

                      This wonderful c1500 impression of the walled city clearly has the little single story, 'buttery' cum 'lean to' cum 'priests chamber' in situ, before the addition of the loft, built by Rev Thadey Cor at a later date......it was known officially in church records as a messuage called by the name "Old Crumlin".

                      It also shows the houses on the High Street.....also the absence of the later Catholic and second St Audoen's church which was built later on the grounds of the Blakeney's Inns, including a tower, which were exchanged for money and land in Swords belonging to (The bakers) St Ann's Guild.

                      James Blakeney's Inns became known as St Audoen's College, and housed a number of the clergy there.

                      We can also see the St Audoen's Road / Lane leading down to St Audoen's Gate, and the line of the old city wall.

                      Great detail, and nice to have...all thanks to Stephen Conlin and Mary MCMahon.

                      I'm still trying to pin down the dates for this structure....working on current knowledge that it was a form of basement stables then built over as a priests chamber, and later the loft addition, that we see in Neil's first photo posted.
                      Where did the Artist stand....
                      Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by quinner View Post
                        where did the artist stand....
                        lol....
                        We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                          lol....
                          Too much artistic licence there for my liking....Have you seen how far in St Nickolas's Church is.....Probably the only bit they got right..
                          Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                            It has indeed....bit of a curve there, but all straight now.

                            This wonderful c1500 impression of the walled city clearly has the little single story, 'buttery' cum 'lean to' cum 'priests chamber' in situ, before the addition of the loft, built by Rev Thadey Cor at a later date......it was known officially in church records as a messuage called by the name "Old Crumlin".

                            It also shows the houses on the High Street.....also the absence of the later Catholic and second St Audoen's church which was built later on the grounds of the Blakeney's Inns, including a tower, which were exchanged for money and land in Swords belonging to (The bakers) St Ann's Guild.

                            James Blakeney's Inns became known as St Audoen's College, and housed a number of the clergy there.

                            We can also see the St Audoen's Road / Lane leading down to St Audoen's Gate, and the line of the old city wall.

                            Great detail, and nice to have...all thanks to Stephen Conlin and Mary MCMahon.

                            I'm still trying to pin down the dates for this structure....working on current knowledge that it was a form of basement stables then built over as a priests chamber, and later the loft addition, that we see in Neil's first photo posted.
                            High street and Back lane deliberately designed to split any attackers forces.....
                            Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A small deed extracted from the record books of St Ann's Guild in the Haliday Collection. This pinpoints our Woork-house cum workshop in the little basement and chamber in 'Old Crumlin' adjacent to the church tower. Deed No 7 29 Oct 1535.
                              Attached Files
                              We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                              Comment

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