The Squad...

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

What sort of incidents do you have in mind ? Operations ? or Assassinations ? Can you shed more light on what it is you're after ?.

The only Squad involvement that comes to mind in Beresford Place was the Custom House attack, where the Squad were responsible for covering all the entry / exit doors.

And the only action that involved Lansdown Road was when Dev's lot covered that area during the Rising.

I cannot think of any specific spies or G men that were wiped out in either of those two streets.

What does Hogan specifically say about action in the areas you're interested in ?.

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

Not a million miles from Landsdowne Road but a quick check on Joe Dolan's witness statement on the Bell shooting lists those involved as Dolan himself, Vinny Byrne, Joe Guilfoyle, Tom Keogh, Mick McDonnell and Liam Tobin. No mention of Sean Hogan...

That's right...I eliminated that ok. The only 'action' I can link with Lansdowne Road per sae is that of the Dub Fusilier from Rathmines who was I believe the first to be shot was Sub-Commandant Frank Browning....as 47 years old.....he was a former Irish international cricketer and rugby player and Pres of the IRFU.

He was hit in the head by a rebels bullet and lingered on for a while before dying later that day .

In fact there's a plaque in Lansdowne Road/Aviva Stadium commemorating his death.

[cogito]

Any one with info on the Squad being involved in incidents in those 2 places. Was studying Sean Hogan's pension application file and he mentions these 2 places, along with Ashtown and Ballyfermot bridge. Landsdown Rd could be connected to the assassination of Alan Bell, but that's only a guess on my part. Any info greatly appreciated.

The Dublin ASU was involved in an attack on a troop train at Ballyfermot Bridge in April 1921 led by Paddy O'Connor - it was notable in that it was one of the few times the IRA used a Thompson sub-machine gun during the Tan War. There's an account of it in ASU member Patrick McCrae's witness statement HERE..

Again, there's no reference to Sean Hogan. Would he not have been heavily engaged in IRA activity in South Tipperary during this period leading up to the Truce ?

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

Seems Hogan says in his pension application that he saw action at Lansdowne Road in August 1920 ....yet we learn he hung around Dublin only until June 1920.....when he returned to Tipp...

Apart from a couple of brief visits to Dublin to discuss Flying Columns, he is out of the city until he returns again in the early part of the truce where he based himself again to assist with the training of Brigades there.

But In December 1921, he became disillusioned by the terms of the treaty, and legged it with Dan Breen to the US.

It wasn't until March 1922, that they returned to Ireland at the request of Liam Lynch.

[johnconnors]

There's no detail whatever in the pension application file, except mention of, Fitzroy Ave, College Green, Landsdown Rd , Ballyfermot bridge,--- Paddy Daly is given as a reference and Jim Slattery gives a note of support,.

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

There's no detail whatever in the pension application file, except mention of, Fitzroy Ave, College Green, Landsdown Rd , Ballyfermot bridge,--- Paddy Daly is given as a reference and Jim Slattery gives a note of support,.

Yep read all that....so what is your hunch ?
Have you found anything at all about action at Lansdowne Road apart from what I've mentioned ?

And what of this ?

Seems Hogan says in his pension application that he saw action at Lansdowne Road in August 1920 ....yet we learn he hung around Dublin only until June 1920.....when he returned to Tipp...

PS: If you hit the quote post box when replying....we will know what you are replying to.....as in pic below......
A post without a quote sometimes needs more working out.

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

You know.... when I look at all the Squad killings from the first way back in July 1919 (pre Squad Squad) when DS 'The Dog' Smith was taken out.....right to the last.....There is not one single mention of our pal Hogan anywhere near the assassinations in between..... So what these references he makes in his pension request statements are....I have no idea.

[cogito]

There's no detail whatever in the pension application file, except mention of, Fitzroy Ave, College Green, Landsdown Rd , Ballyfermot bridge,--- Paddy Daly is given as a reference and Jim Slattery gives a note of support,.

You know.... when I look at all the Squad killings from the first way back in July 1919 (pre Squad Squad) when DS 'The Dog' Smith was taken out.....right to the last.....There is not one single mention of our pal Hogan anywhere near the assassinations in between..... So what these references he makes in his pension request statements are....I have no idea.

He did take part in the Ashtown ambush of Lord French by Squad members along with the others from Tipp - Dan Breen, Seamus Robinson and Sean Treacy.

I came across a letter written by Robinson during the 1930s earlier today - think it was in support of Hogan's application for a military pension. In it he refers to Hogan being involved in numerous operations with the Dublin ASU. Yet we know he spent most of 1920 as a senior brigade officer in Tipperary. Maybe we're missing something in 1921 before the Truce.

I'll see if I can dig out a link to Robinson's letter.

[cogito]

Link to the letter from Robinson to the Military Pensions Board.

http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/reels/bmh/BMH.WS1721.pdf#page=136

Partial screenshot below - note the bottom paragraph... the Dublin Active Service Unit was formed in December 1920.

Robinson-Hogan.jpg

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

He did take part in the Ashtown ambush of Lord French by Squad members along with the others from Tipp - Dan Breen, Seamus Robinson and Sean Treacy.

I came across a letter written by Robinson during the 1930s earlier today - think it was in support of Hogan's application for a military pension. In it he refers to Hogan being involved in numerous operations with the Dublin ASU. Yet we know he spent most of 1920 as a senior brigade officer in Tipperary. Maybe we're missing something in 1921 before the Truce.

I'll see if I can dig out a link to Robinson's letter.

Well yeah I got Ashtown....but not much else.... From any source.

[cogito]

Well yeah I got Ashtown....but not much else.... From any source.

Me neither.

I'm curious as to why someone with as high a profile as Sean Hogan during the War Of Independence (Soloheadbeg, Knocklong, Ashtown, Tipperary flying columns and so forth) needed any references from Robinson, Daly and others for an IRA pension.

[johnconnors]

I don't think the references are for the actual awarding of the pension as such. More for the status of rank and the level of involvement. I suspect that Hogan wasn't the easiest of applicants to deal with. Lots of memos about ''absenting himself'' before a final decision was made. From my study of him, I'd imagine him to be pretty eccentric and not without a share of mental issues--- which doesn't surprise me, as he was central to 13 killings by the time he was 21 years old and peripheral to more

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

Me neither.

I'm curious as to why someone with as high a profile as Sean Hogan during the War Of Independence (Soloheadbeg, Knocklong, Ashtown, Tipperary flying columns and so forth) needed any references from Robinson, Daly and others for an IRA pension.

According to Col Winter, he mentions a Secret Service Agent living at 46 Lansdowne Road....but no other info.
Then I discovered info on 2 RIC men killed in Ballyfermot on 20 march 1921.

So it might be that our pal Hogan was involved there....then again was he not back in Tipp by June 1920, and all bar a few visits to Dublin....he's out of it.

Seems the listed places for ops involving him are still a mystery.

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

Looking at this letter the underlined states that Hogan was part of the ASU and was there when it was put together. Well assuming he means 'ASU' that's most likely why apart from Ashtown, his name doesn't come up in any other 'Squad' jobs.....If, as was done frequently by all comers when referring to the ASU they actually meant the July 1919 "Special Duties" pre Squad team....and the original Sep 1919 pre Apostles four man unit of Leonard, O'Daly, Doyle and Barrett.....then we know Hogan had nothing to do with those units of the post Apostles Squad apart from Ashtown.

We are informed that at the Sep 1919 meeting Collins referred to an 'Active Service Unit or whatever else it is called" and it could be that which Robinson refers to in his letter and others such as Breen refer to elsewhere......but it was never called the ASU officially until after the amalgamation much later as we know, so we can discount that in Hogan's case.

I can't believe that Hogan took part in as many, if not more operations in Dublin that most. When we know he wasn't there between June 20th to the end of 1921......for a short time until taking off with Breen for the US.....and not returning until March 1922.

[johnconnors]

Thanks for all of that--- room for further study.