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  #571  
Old 14-11-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by johnconnors View Post
Thanks for all of that--- room for further study.
Well if you come up with any further info I'll be fascinated to hear what it is.....the mystery is killin me lol.
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  #572  
Old 14-11-2017, 03:52 PM
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I don't think the references are for the actual awarding of the pension as such. More for the status of rank and the level of involvement. I suspect that Hogan wasn't the easiest of applicants to deal with. Lots of memos about ''absenting himself'' before a final decision was made. From my study of him, I'd imagine him to be pretty eccentric and not without a share of mental issues--- which doesn't surprise me, as he was central to 13 killings by the time he was 21 years old and peripheral to more
What 13 killings were they JC..do you know ? ..where did you get that info ?
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  #573  
Old 14-11-2017, 04:43 PM
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From Joe Ambrose book Dan Breen and the IRA:

Quote:
Robinson had objected to Hogan being put in charge of a column.

He told Ryan (Thomas) that if they insisted on handing over their column to Hogan, they might live to regret it. He said that Hogan was too young for the job.
Quote:
By early 1921, Hogan's subordinates were starting to share Robinson's doubts.

A number of us were dissatisfied with Hogan's leadership, Thomas Ryan admitted.
Quote:
There were about twelve or fourteen of the column who wanted me to take over the leadership because they felt that Hogan was lacking common sense and we were tired of being continuously hunted
Quote:
Nevertheless Hogan remained in charge of his column and, by the time the truce came about in July 1921, they had failed to pull off even ONE successful ambush.
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  #574  
Old 14-11-2017, 05:48 PM
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Ryan gave his assesement at a remove of 30 years, by which time it was given from the view point of a professional soldier-- which in 1921, none of these fellas were. Two things that I take into account as well-- the generation gap and where loyalties fell in the civil war. I began to get a bit sceptical of Ryan's take on things when I read in his statement that the leadership of the column was his gift to accept but because he was doing ok with his farming a cattle jobbing he could not devote to it full time and also-- he didn't want to be in a position where he would have to make decisions that would result in anyone getting killed. The WoI was full of people who would have made great officers if a war could be fought without anyone getting killed. Mossy McGrath's statement give a balance to Ryan's view while that of Dick Dalton is probably the fairest and most balanced while still being critical of Hogan. ---- The survival of the column alone, right in the centre of one of the most militarized areas, suffering the loss of only one member to arrest, was an achievement in itself... Cumbersome command structures, poor intellegence, fear of reprisals by local company officers, all contributed to the ineffectiveness of no 2 column. Not forgetting of course that they were actually in existance for a very short period of the WOI.
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  #575  
Old 16-11-2017, 12:03 PM
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From the Subject Information Summary of Hogan's claim for disability pension, we dont really have to scour through all the documents when it has been done for us on page one of Hogan's Military Service Pension file.

The extract below shows what operations he claims he was engaged in and interestingly enough his time in Dublin is quite short (Sep / Oct 1919 - July 1920) unless I've missed something.....that's less than one year.

Quote:
Hogan states he was attached to the GHQ squad, Dublin from September or October 1919 when he came to Dublin.
But no details. Not even Ashtown.

Quote:
The Military Service Registration Board notes Hogan took part in "squad" operations in Dublin and Tipperary.
Again no details...not even Ashtown.

Quote:
Claims that he was appointed Officer Commanding , 6 Battalion in July 1920. Says that he took part in engagements in Ballyporeen, Clogheen, Kiltangin (February 1921), Ardfinane (March 1921), Tubrid and Hollyford. Hogan claims that he was full-time through the Truce (12 July 1921 - 30 June 1922).
Plenty of detail here though.

Quote:
Mentions that he went to Northern Ireland (Tyrone and Belfast) in September and October [1921].
Detail here.

Quote:
Hogan states that in early 1922 he and Breen went to United States of America and London in order to collect arms. Dan Breen, in his sworn statement says Hogan was with him in Northern Ireland but that he was in London with Bill Doherty and Jerry Keily.
Detail here too.

Quote:
Claims that in May 1922 he was among those who surrounded the RIC barracks at Annacarty which was held by Colonel Carew of the National Forces.
Some detail here too.

Quote:
Dan Breen states that Hogan was injured while running dispatches to County Waterford in August 1922 and that he was involved in intelligence work for headquarters, Dublin.
Detail here too.

Quote:
Says that he was imprisoned in Mountjoy in February 1923 and released in September or October 1923.
Then Mountjoy detail.....but absolutely no details of Dublin ops.
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  #576  
Old 16-11-2017, 06:52 PM
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Any objections to moving the Hogan posts off this thread to the existing Sean Hogan thread ?
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  #577  
Old 16-11-2017, 07:22 PM
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Any objections to moving the Hogan posts off this thread to the existing Sean Hogan thread ?
Spot on by me--- not a bother
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  #578  
Old 16-11-2017, 08:28 PM
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Any objections to moving the Hogan posts off this thread to the existing Sean Hogan thread ?
The reason i posted on both is because this is to do with Hogans relationship with the squad....Bloody irritating moving stuff about.....Its relevant imo.....so can we leave it alone iydm.
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  #579  
Old 16-11-2017, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnconnors View Post
Ryan gave his assesement at a remove of 30 years, by which time it was given from the view point of a professional soldier-- which in 1921, none of these fellas were. Two things that I take into account as well-- the generation gap and where loyalties fell in the civil war. I began to get a bit sceptical of Ryan's take on things when I read in his statement that the leadership of the column was his gift to accept but because he was doing ok with his farming a cattle jobbing he could not devote to it full time and also-- he didn't want to be in a position where he would have to make decisions that would result in anyone getting killed. The WoI was full of people who would have made great officers if a war could be fought without anyone getting killed. Mossy McGrath's statement give a balance to Ryan's view while that of Dick Dalton is probably the fairest and most balanced while still being critical of Hogan. ---- The survival of the column alone, right in the centre of one of the most militarized areas, suffering the loss of only one member to arrest, was an achievement in itself... Cumbersome command structures, poor intellegence, fear of reprisals by local company officers, all contributed to the ineffectiveness of no 2 column. Not forgetting of course that they were actually in existance for a very short period of the WOI.
I will answer this post on the HOGAN thread, as it has nothing to do with The Squad.
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  #580  
Old 16-11-2017, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
The reason i posted on both is because this is to do with Hogans relationship with the squad....Bloody irritating moving stuff about.....Its relevant imo.....so can we leave it alone iydm.
No problem... will leave the posts be for the time being.
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