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Ireland: From 1916 to the War of Independence

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  • #31
    Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
    Before we fast-forward to the release of the prisoners/internees (to satisfy Mr Bird) I thought we should take a look at what had been happening at home in Ireland as a direct result of the Easter Rising.
    In terms of achieving its proclaimed objective - the immediate establishment of an internationally recognised Irish Republic - the rebellion of 1916 was an unmitigated failure. Yet it was also the catalyst for much of what happened next; a seminal moment in Irish history, perhaps the defining one. As Yeats predicted in his poem "Easter 1916", Ireland was to be changed irrevocably by these events; a "terrible beauty" had indeed been born. It's impossible to say how the course of Irish history would have progressed had this key event not taken place to set the wheels in motion. Perhaps the threat of Conscription or the ongoing opposition of Ulster to Home Rule would have triggered some similar event at some point over the next couple of years, but it was the Rising -or rather the British response to it - that was instrumental in changing the hearts and minds of the Irish public.

    To be continued..........
    It was events in Europe and around the rest of the world that changed the situation in Ireland......
    Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by quinner View Post
      It was events in Europe and around the rest of the world that changed the situation in Ireland......
      Well of course there were many factors involved.......all I'm saying is that the events of 1916 were instrumental in changing the attitudes of the population towards British rule; as I understand it, most people were either disinterested in the Nationalist cause or content to wait for the limited form of self-governance promised by the HR bill. The actions of the British authorities following the Rising caused a seismic shift in the attitudes of the public and the radical politics of what had been a minority movement - albeit a sizable minority - became more mainstream.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
        Well of course there were many factors involved.......all I'm saying is that the events of 1916 were instrumental in changing the attitudes of the population towards British rule; as I understand it, most people were either disinterested in the Nationalist cause or content to wait for the limited form of self-governance promised by the HR bill. The actions of the British authorities following the Rising caused a seismic shift in the attitudes of the public and the radical politics of what had been a minority movement - albeit a sizable minority - became more mainstream.
        ''Home Rule'' after being on the cards and being put to one side by the Great-war, then seemed not to be on the cards while other small ''Subject-states were getting what it seemed they wanted.....
        Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by quinner View Post
          ''Home Rule'' after being on the cards and being put to one side by the Great-war, then seemed not to be on the cards while other small ''Subject-states were getting what it seemed they wanted.....
          in other words the Irish saw that independence was achievable by looking at other countries, and that's what made them decide to go for full independence themselves?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
            in other words the Irish saw that independence was achievable by looking at other countries, and that's what made them decide to go for full independence themselves?
            ''In other words'' ...one can never really tell what the ordinary people were thinking throughout history....

            The ordinary people were made promises.....The saw others getting what ''they'' wanted....
            Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
              in other words the Irish saw that independence was achievable by looking at other countries, and that's what made them decide to go for full independence themselves?
              the irish were looking at full indipendance for a couple of centuries before the 'other' countries were, the leaders at the time of ww1 thought it was an opportune moment [right or wrong ] to strike with the knowledge [of certain leaders that it would be suicidal] ........great thread by the way.
              in god i trust...everyone else cash only.

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              • #37
                Aftermath of the Rising: Part 2

                In the early hours of Friday 28th April, Major-General Sir John Maxwell arrived in Dublin. He had been appointed Commander-in-Chief of Troops and was tasked with putting down the rebellion and punishing the rebels.
                In the days and weeks following the Rising, 15 of the rebels, including the 7 signatories, were executed. Thousands of men and women were arrested, at least half of whom had not been involved. A large number of these were then sent to prisons and internment camps in England and Wales, many without trial. Martial law had been declared in Dublin on 25th April, the second day of the Rising. This was extended the following day to the rest of the country. There was a curfew from 8.30 to 5.00 AM. Anyone out during these hours risked being shot. In Dublin, people were afraid to leave their homes, even during the day.
                A week after the Rising, things were starting to get back to normal, with people returning to work and schools being reopened. Arnotts was back in business but Clery's, which had sustained significant damage, remained closed. Pubs had been shut down and the sale of drink from other outlets was limited. The looting had stopped, though looted goods continued to be sold on the black market.
                Athough a semblance of normality had been restored, martial law, with its restrictions and the increased censorship of the press, meant that the citizens of Dublin were becoming increasingly frustrated and cut off from the outside world.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by cosmo View Post
                  the irish were looking at full indipendance for a couple of centuries before the 'other' countries were, the leaders at the time of ww1 thought it was an opportune moment [right or wrong ] to strike with the knowledge [of certain leaders that it would be suicidal] ........great thread by the way.
                  Thank you Cosmo.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by cosmo View Post
                    the irish were looking at full indipendance for a couple of centuries before the 'other' countries were, the leaders at the time of ww1 thought it was an opportune moment [right or wrong ] to strike with the knowledge [of certain leaders that it would be suicidal] ........great thread by the way.
                    Twas indeed the Irish Rebellion that heralded the breakup of the British Empire........

                    Sure the big international players copied Collins....Russian, Chinese and more.......Vladimir Lenin, Mao Zedong and Yitzak Shamir studied and adopted Collins' tactics....... Michael Collins led the way......without any doubt.
                    We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

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                    • #40
                      throughout the centuries all the rebellions and risings including 1916 were led and organised by the well to do gentry , wolf tone, fitzgerald , the o`donnells in Donegal, can`t think of the most important man in Belfast [rippos avatar] , with many more right down to Patrick pearse and most of his command, it mirrors the recent brexet , and trump, results with the populous being drawn along without really knowing the complete objective, unfortunately in risings you are either with us or aganst us with dire results....going back to the thread itself , events at the time affected the current situation in the north, jul 1916 saw the nearly whole 36 div of northern Orangemen wiped out in the somme and that is what the dup of today hold up as an extreme sacrafiece to keep the six counties british, and they use the rising in Dublin as an example to say 'you can`t trust the irish '.
                      in god i trust...everyone else cash only.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                        Twas indeed the Irish Rebellion that heralded the breakup of the British Empire........

                        Sure the big international players copied Collins....Russian, Chinese and more.......Vladimir Lenin, Mao Zedong and Yitzak Shamir studied and adopted Collins' tactics....... Michael Collins led the way......without any doubt.
                        LOL...Really is time you read a bit of World History......
                        Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by quinner View Post
                          LOL...Really is time you read a bit of World History......
                          Oh gowan then "oh one of know all virtue" Enlighten us with your superior knowledge instead of taking pot shots at respectable posters......dont just gob off...give some constructive comment or naught at all.
                          Ill say it again Collins led the way......which was simply amazing considering his age and background.
                          We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                            Oh gowan then "oh one of know all virtue" Enlighten us with your superior knowledge instead of taking pot shots at respectable posters......dont just gob off...give some constructive comment or naught at all.
                            Ill say it again Collins led the way......which was simply amazing considering his age and background.
                            LOL..Study some History before become you become the laughing stock of the Planet Earth....
                            Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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                            • #44
                              The Aftermath of the Rising Part 3

                              When Pearse read out the Proclamation at the GPO on Easter Monday, the response from the small audience was muted, to say the least. The people of Dublin had become used to seeing the Volunteers and the Citizen Army marching and many people probably thought that this was just another exercise. Others thought it was some sort of street theatre. Elsewhere, Countess Markievicz was asked if she was taking part in a play. When it became apparent that this was neither a routine manouevre nor a public display of defiance by a bunch of crazy Sinn Feiners, but a serious attempt to oust the British government, the reaction of most ordinary people was one of outrage. Ireland in April 1916 was hardly a hotbed of radical Nationalism. There was of course a long tradition of rebellion in the country, along with one of resentment towards Britain for the Famine, the Penal Laws and the Land Wars, but most Nationalists believed that the days of physical force were long gone, and that the way to independence was through constitutional means. They supported the Irish Parliamentary Party, who had been campaigning for Home Rule since the days of Parnell. Owing to the Liberal government's reliance on the party in Parliament, and new limitations on the power of veto in the House of Lords, the party, led by John Redmond, had finally seen the Bill become law, although it had been put on hold for the duration of the war.
                              So although a deep-seated desire for independence was burned into the Irish psyche, it was the form this independence should take, and the means employed to achieve it, that divided the rebels of 1916 from the majority of the Irish people.
                              Last edited by KatieMorag; 21-12-2017, 12:05 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
                                When Pearse read out the Proclamation at the GPO on Easter Monday, the response from the small audience was muted, to say the least. The people of Dublin had become used to seeing the Volunteers and the Citizen Army marching and many people probably thought that this was just another exercise. Others thought it was some sort of street theatre. Elsewhere, Countess Markievicz was asked if she was taking part in a play. When it became apparent that this was neither a routine manouevre nor a public display of defiance by a bunch of crazy Sinn Feiners, but a serious attempt to oust the British government, the reaction of most ordinary people was one of outrage. Ireland in April 1916 was hardly a hotbed of radical Nationalism. There was of course a long tradition of rebellion in the country, along with one of resentment against Britain for the Famine, the Penal Laws and the Land Wars, but most Nationalists believed that the days of physical force were long gone, and that the way to independence was through constitutional means. They supported the Irish Parliamentary Party, who had been campaigning for Home Rule since the days of Parnell. Owing to the Liberal government's reliance on the party in Parliament, and new limitations on the power of veto in the House of Lords, the party, led by John Redmond, had finally seen the Bill become law, although it had been put on hold for the duration of the war.
                                So although a deep-seated desire for independence was burned into the Irish psyche, it was the form this independence should take, and the means employed to achieve it, that divided the rebels of 1916 from the majority of the Irish people.
                                I have had many and have overheard many conversations with relations and others who were alive at that time......Very interesting.....
                                Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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