Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Dolores & Paverotti: Ave Maria

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dolores & Paverotti: Ave Maria

    On a sad day that Dolores O'Riordan is brought home to Limerick.

    Everything is self-evident.

  • #2
    This just reminded me of a surprising event about forty five years ago.

    My old man was a couple of years off retiring from the 'Oifig an Phoist' as it was then. It was usual for the post to let a long serving postman finish their last few years on an 'indoor job' or cushy number as we might say.....his final two years were spent at the Henry Street entrance to the GPO as a security number. That door led to Radio Eireann the Irish radio broadcast HQ at the time.....for those who don't know.

    RE was in the process of moving house and all of the 78rpm record collection was being slowly moved out in sizeable trolley racks.

    Anyway on the day in question the fella that was moving the records stopped in the hall and asked my oul man to keep an eye on his trolley while he used the loo.

    Out of curiosity the oul man put his hand into the middle of the rack and pulled out a 78, and what a surprise to find the 78 was a recording made by his own brother Frank C....which was more surprising because he had no idea his brother had ever made the recording in the first place.

    He then took out an adjacent record and found it was also recorded by his brother...

    Frank was a wonderful musician, singer and dancer in his time. From a family of eleven singers, dancers and musicians he was regarded as a boy prodigy and was given all the help and encouragement of my grandparents to capitalize on his natural talent by having him enrolled in the Army School of Music in Dublin at a young age.

    From boy soprano in the Inchicore choir he went on to be chief organist for twenty six years at the Oblates Church not far from where the family lived in Ring Street.

    Although as time went on he could play almost any instrument ....wind, string and others besides....his favourite was piano....and he was in his day something of a celeb, and always in demand for weddings and theatre shows etc around the country.

    Perhaps my old man should not have been so surprised when he found the two 78's. Although my Uncle Frank was deceased by the time the recordings were found.

    The first record the old man pulled was Ave Maria (Schubert) with "Bless This House" as the B Side. I keep that record today, and it's here for those interested, AM is a bit scratchy and incomplete for sure, but I think he does both songs justice and I love his piano, particularly on BTH. It's a real nice to have. The second record lives with my elder sister in the US.
    We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
      This just reminded me of a surprising event about forty five years ago.

      My old man was a couple of years off retiring from the 'Oifig an Phoist' as it was then. It was usual for the post to let a long serving postman finish their last few years on an 'indoor job' or cushy number as we might say.....his final two years were spent at the Henry Street entrance to the GPO as a security number. That door led to Radio Eireann the Irish radio broadcast HQ at the time.....for those who don't know.

      RE was in the process of moving house and all of the 78rpm record collection was being slowly moved out in sizeable trolley racks.

      Anyway on the day in question the fella that was moving the records stopped in the hall and asked my oul man to keep an eye on his trolley while he used the loo.

      Out of curiosity the oul man put his hand into the middle of the rack and pulled out a 78, and what a surprise to find the 78 was a recording made by his own brother Frank C....which was more surprising because he had no idea his brother had ever made the recording in the first place.

      He then took out an adjacent record and found it was also recorded by his brother...

      Frank was a wonderful musician, singer and dancer in his time. From a family of eleven singers, dancers and musicians he was regarded as a boy prodigy and was given all the help and encouragement of my grandparents to capitalize on his natural talent by having him enrolled in the Army School of Music in Dublin at a young age.

      From boy soprano in the Inchicore choir he went on to be chief organist for twenty six years at the Oblates Church not far from where the family lived in Ring Street.

      Although as time went on he could play almost any instrument ....wind, string and others besides....his favourite was piano....and he was in his day something of a celeb, and always in demand for weddings and theatre shows etc around the country.

      Perhaps my old man should not have been so surprised when he found the two 78's. Although my Uncle Frank was deceased by the time the recordings were found.

      The first record the old man pulled was Ave Maria (Schubert) with "Bless This House" as the B Side. I keep that record today, and it's here for those interested, AM is a bit scratchy and incomplete for sure, but I think he does both songs justice and I love his piano, particularly on BTH. It's a real nice to have. The second record lives with my elder sister in the US.
      Great Noel,
      I'm a Freeborn Man of the Travellin' People

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tommie View Post
        Great Noel,
        Cheers T
        We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
          This just reminded me of a surprising event about forty five years ago.

          My old man was a couple of years off retiring from the 'Oifig an Phoist' as it was then. It was usual for the post to let a long serving postman finish their last few years on an 'indoor job' or cushy number as we might say.....his final two years were spent at the Henry Street entrance to the GPO as a security number. That door led to Radio Eireann the Irish radio broadcast HQ at the time.....for those who don't know.

          RE was in the process of moving house and all of the 78rpm record collection was being slowly moved out in sizeable trolley racks.

          Anyway on the day in question the fella that was moving the records stopped in the hall and asked my oul man to keep an eye on his trolley while he used the loo.

          Out of curiosity the oul man put his hand into the middle of the rack and pulled out a 78, and what a surprise to find the 78 was a recording made by his own brother Frank C....which was more surprising because he had no idea his brother had ever made the recording in the first place.

          He then took out an adjacent record and found it was also recorded by his brother...

          Frank was a wonderful musician, singer and dancer in his time. From a family of eleven singers, dancers and musicians he was regarded as a boy prodigy and was given all the help and encouragement of my grandparents to capitalize on his natural talent by having him enrolled in the Army School of Music in Dublin at a young age.

          From boy soprano in the Inchicore choir he went on to be chief organist for twenty six years at the Oblates Church not far from where the family lived in Ring Street.

          Although as time went on he could play almost any instrument ....wind, string and others besides....his favourite was piano....and he was in his day something of a celeb, and always in demand for weddings and theatre shows etc around the country.

          Perhaps my old man should not have been so surprised when he found the two 78's. Although my Uncle Frank was deceased by the time the recordings were found.

          The first record the old man pulled was Ave Maria (Schubert) with "Bless This House" as the B Side. I keep that record today, and it's here for those interested, AM is a bit scratchy and incomplete for sure, but I think he does both songs justice and I love his piano, particularly on BTH. It's a real nice to have. The second record lives with my elder sister in the US.

          DTM that is beautiful he had a lovely voice well disciplined and that was a very fluid rendition. it certainly beats Dolores O'Riordan's attempt.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Vico2 View Post
            DTM that is beautiful he had a lovely voice well disciplined and that was a very fluid rendition. it certainly beats Dolores O'Riordan's attempt.
            Well thank you V2... I wondered if you might see it...I knew you'd have a good idea of what he was doing...and how....thanks for that. He is now finally out of the rack and immortalized forever in the ether ....well until Boxy stops paying the bills lol. Dolores won't be happy mind you But what a wow to get to sing with the maestro Mr P himself.
            We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
              Well thank you V2... I wondered if you might see it...I knew you'd have a good idea of what he was doing...and how....thanks for that. He is now finally out of the rack and immortalized forever in the ether ....well until Boxy stops paying the bills lol. Dolores won't be happy mind you But what a wow to get to sing with the maestro Mr P himself.
              I mean no disrespect to Dolores DW, she is good at her own type of music, in fact very good. But you have to approach each type of music in its own way. This is religious music and requires vocal discipline, you can't just slide up to notes like she did.

              I am wondering could you get that record descratched (if there is such a word) and copied on to CD. It would be well worth it. Your brother had music in his heart, hence his lovely rendition. Not everybody has that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Vico2 View Post
                I mean no disrespect to Dolores DW, she is good at her own type of music, in fact very good. But you have to approach each type of music in its own way. This is religious music and requires vocal discipline, you can't just slide up to notes like she did.

                I am wondering could you get that record descratched (if there is such a word) and copied on to CD. It would be well worth it. Your uncle had music in his heart, hence his lovely rendition. Not everybody has that.
                I thought that myself....she just seemed so halfpenny place when he followed her...but it doesn't make her a bad person in her own world as you say.

                Yes I think 'descratching' (lol) is very possible with the equipment out there today....it could be remastered I'm sure....I will make enquiries around and about....good idea. I'll also get a nice frame with velvet as a backing and hopefully that way it will not be disgarded when I'm gone, although my youngest son is the musical one in our branch now and he would value the original record...I always think these things have a better chance of survival if they are framed....much like old family photo albums.

                Frank was a wonderful self effacing individual who never pushed himself forward...in fact my Da would have to break the ice with the singing or piano before Frank would do anything....so talented and yet so shy and retiring.

                I had piano lessons from him as a young fella, and one day after a lesson
                I asked him to play me the Tchaikovsky No1 Piano Concerto.... and though he was both an ear or dots man, he played it from memory.

                Sad to say he was born too soon and ended his days playing pub piano stuff....and the whisky the punters bought him down the final years did for him....he died aged sixty one unmarried and penniless....so so sad....then again many like him went the same way....but you're right he was music personified all his life....yet to see him out you would never have known his talents.
                We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                  I thought that myself....she just seemed so halfpenny place when he followed her...but it doesn't make her a bad person in her own world as you say.

                  Yes I think 'descratching' (lol) is very possible with the equipment out there today....it could be remastered I'm sure....I will make enquiries around and about....good idea. I'll also get a nice frame with velvet as a backing and hopefully that way it will not be disgarded when I'm gone, although my youngest son is the musical one in our branch now and he would value the original record...I always think these things have a better chance of survival if they are framed....much like old family photo albums.

                  Frank was a wonderful self effacing individual who never pushed himself forward...in fact my Da would have to break the ice with the singing or piano before Frank would do anything....so talented and yet so shy and retiring.

                  I had piano lessons from him as a young fella, and one day after a lesson
                  I asked him to play me the Tchaikovsky No1 Piano Concerto.... and though he was both an ear or dots man, he played it from memory.

                  Sad to say he was born too soon and ended his days playing pub piano stuff....and the whisky the punters bought him down the final years did for him....he died aged sixty one unmarried and penniless....so so sad....then again many like him went the same way....but you're right he was music personified all his life....yet to see him out you would never have known his talents.
                  That is sad, but he was not alone, Mozart died in poverty also, and other famous musicians. I have an ancestor who was a very famous musician and composer. As you can imagine some of his family were also musicians. Two of his sons also died in poverty.


                  I reckon if you could get Frank's music copied on to CD you could keep his name alive.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Vico2 View Post
                    I mean no disrespect to Dolores DW, she is good at her own type of music, in fact very good. But you have to approach each type of music in its own way. This is religious music and requires vocal discipline, you can't just slide up to notes like she did....

                    .
                    Given the day that was in it Vico, I think that comment was disrespectful...

                    Dolores had a unique talent with her voice and creativity... she was a genuine artist in every sense - and was recognised around the globe for that.

                    For anyone who genuinely appreciates music in all it's forms her rendition of the Ave - in front of a huge crowd - and with no electronic gimmickry to 'improve' her performance - was little short of magic - sliding up to notes and all.
                    Everything is self-evident.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by cogito View Post
                      Given the day that was in it Vico, I think that comment was disrespectful...

                      Dolores had a unique talent with her voice and creativity... she was a genuine artist in every sense - and was recognised around the globe for that.

                      For anyone who genuinely appreciates music in all it's forms her rendition of the Ave - in front of a huge crowd - and with no electronic gimmickry to 'improve' her performance - was little short of magic - sliding up to notes and all.
                      Cogito there was no disrespect intended as I thought I made clear, but maybe not clear enough. I agree she was very good at her own type of music, just not at the Ave Maria. Assessing whether somebody made a good job of what they did as nothing to do with respect. It is an assessment of how they did it, not of the person themselves. That doesn't change because of the tragic death of the woman, or anything around that.

                      I would not dispute her talent or the uniqueness of her voice for a moment in her own genre, but not in the Ave Maria. I am giving my own view, I am not asking anybody else to hold that view.

                      I don't want to sound like a prude, though I know it may come across that way, but my training in music growing up was very strict and please believe me when I say that sliding up to notes is not allowed in singing classical music.

                      Try to imagine if you can Pavarotti singing a pop song, his voice would still be beautiful, but it would not work. The sliding and various other things that pop singers do quite successfully, would be totally against his training and he would not be able to do it the way they can.

                      I think Dolores had a lovely voice and was very successful at what she did. Cogs I am not trying to take any of that away from her or diminish her success, I promise you. But I still hold she did not sing the Ave Maria the way it should be sung.

                      If you feel upset by what I am saying then I apologise for upsetting you, that was NOT my intention I assure you. While I would NOT claim expertise on any subject under the sun, I studied music and singing for years. So I do know something about the classical end anyway. But again I am sorry if I upset you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No worries Vico - it was me that was being too precious, not yourself.
                        Everything is self-evident.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                          This just reminded me of a surprising event about forty five years ago.

                          My old man was a couple of years off retiring from the 'Oifig an Phoist' as it was then. It was usual for the post to let a long serving postman finish their last few years on an 'indoor job' or cushy number as we might say.....his final two years were spent at the Henry Street entrance to the GPO as a security number. That door led to Radio Eireann the Irish radio broadcast HQ at the time.....for those who don't know.

                          RE was in the process of moving house and all of the 78rpm record collection was being slowly moved out in sizeable trolley racks.

                          Anyway on the day in question the fella that was moving the records stopped in the hall and asked my oul man to keep an eye on his trolley while he used the loo.

                          Out of curiosity the oul man put his hand into the middle of the rack and pulled out a 78, and what a surprise to find the 78 was a recording made by his own brother Frank C....which was more surprising because he had no idea his brother had ever made the recording in the first place.

                          He then took out an adjacent record and found it was also recorded by his brother...

                          Frank was a wonderful musician, singer and dancer in his time. From a family of eleven singers, dancers and musicians he was regarded as a boy prodigy and was given all the help and encouragement of my grandparents to capitalize on his natural talent by having him enrolled in the Army School of Music in Dublin at a young age.

                          From boy soprano in the Inchicore choir he went on to be chief organist for twenty six years at the Oblates Church not far from where the family lived in Ring Street.

                          Although as time went on he could play almost any instrument ....wind, string and others besides....his favourite was piano....and he was in his day something of a celeb, and always in demand for weddings and theatre shows etc around the country.

                          Perhaps my old man should not have been so surprised when he found the two 78's. Although my Uncle Frank was deceased by the time the recordings were found.

                          The first record the old man pulled was Ave Maria (Schubert) with "Bless This House" as the B Side. I keep that record today, and it's here for those interested, AM is a bit scratchy and incomplete for sure, but I think he does both songs justice and I love his piano, particularly on BTH. It's a real nice to have. The second record lives with my elder sister in the US.
                          great stuff there d.t,...great family history.
                          I had an aunt r.i.p ,who used to sing in 'our ladies choral society ' , I think she may have had a 'lead' voice if that's the right expression ? , I only heard her sing once that was at my sisters wedding in 1950s and she sang the ave maria. ...a bit too young to appreciate it then.
                          in god i trust...everyone else cash only.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Vico, I wanted to say that too but didn't want to sound disrespectful. Great pop singer but should have had some training before attempting classical - you could see her straining to reach those notes......to sing classically you need breath control and to be able to get above the notes instead of "sliding up" to them......not singing from the throat as my teacher used to say. Dolores had the potential to do all that but imo should have had some proper training. And regarding electronic gizmos......if you're classically trained you don't need them......it's about projecting the voice as an instrument in its own right.
                            Last edited by KatieMorag; 22-01-2018, 11:32 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm trying to imagine Pav attempting ' Combine Harvester ' .

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X