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Ireland: From 1916 to the War of Independence

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  • Ireland: From 1916 to the War of Independence

    Okay, so I know a fair bit now about the Easter Rising, but let's face it, it's SO last year.......anyway, before the WOI Centenary kicks in I thought it might be good to have a bit of a catch-up with the Rebels - (the ones that are left) - and find out what they've been up to during this in-between period, what's going on vis-a-vis the Home Rule Act, how the relationship between Ireland and Britain is changing and so on, so we all know what page we're on come 2019........

  • #2
    Release of the prisoners, the conscription crisis, 1918 elections and the rise of Sinn Féin, Versailles Peace Conference, IRB re-organisation,1st Dail and lots more.

    Plenty to be going with alright...
    Everything is self-evident.

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    • #3
      I suppose we should start with the immediate aftermath, with the internments, before we get on to them being released, as their time in prison was very important.......been watching a documentary about Frongoch on youtube, some of the "acting" is a bit suspect but it's a good place to start I guess......

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      • #4
        Point of order madame chairman.... were they internees ? Or sentenced to imprisonment by military court martial ? Not a rhetorical question - I don't know which it was...
        Everything is self-evident.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by cogito View Post
          Point of order madame chairman.... were they internees ? Or sentenced to imprisonment by military court martial ? Not a rhetorical question - I don't know which it was...
          well it's referred to as an internment camp.....think it says in the programme that some of them didn't have a trial......anyway they were prisoners.
          Article from the Guardian about the camp from a local perspective:

          Little remains of Frongoch prison camp, but locals are preparing to mark the centenary of 1,800 Irish men’s arrival after the 1916 Easter Rising


          lol just noticed the writer (a Dubliner) mentions the phantom GPO steps in the article!
          Last edited by KatieMorag; 14-12-2017, 10:29 PM.

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          • #6
            Not sure what their status was.....Damn or Eireann Ascendant will probably know. From what I can gather, the military under General Maxwell took responsibility for punishing the rebels; there were either 160 or 183 (depending on source) "trials" (ie courts martial) and nearly 2,000 men and women deported to England or Wales so I guess some of them were "imprisoned" but most were "interned", if you want to be picky.......
            Last edited by KatieMorag; 14-12-2017, 10:00 PM.

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            • #7
              Extraordinary celebrations as final rebellion prisoners released
              Dublin, 19 June 1917 - There were scenes of jubilation at Westland Row train station yesterday where thousands gathered to greet the released Republican prisoners, arriving home from prisons throughout England.

              The crowd had been gathering at the station for hours to meet the 117 prisoners who had been arrested in the aftermath of the Easter Rising. Recognisable in the crowd were mothers, sisters and widows of the executed rebel leaders.

              Among those released were Countess Markievicz and Count Plunkett, the latter of whom had only been arrested and jailed earlier this month. Countess Markievicz was accompanied by Kathleen Lynn, Helena Molony and Marie Perolz who had all travelled to Britain to escort her home.

              Other senior figures released included Eoin MacNeill, Eamon de Valera, Thomas Ashe and Cathal Brugha.
              Extraordinary celebrations as final rebellion prisoners released | The Century Ireland project is an online historical newspaper that tells the story of the events of Irish life a century ago
              Attached Files
              I google because I'm not young enough to know everything.
              Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit

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              • #8
                So I know Michael Collins was famously in Frongoch, but what other prisons/camps were there in England/Wales and who went there? I see poor old Arthur Griffith (who was against the Rising) went to Reading......where did Connie end up?

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                • #9
                  Roll of honour........lists of combatants and where they ended up......knew there had to be a list somewhere!

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                  • #10
                    More on life in Frongoch.......interesting to see that Collins estimated about a quarter of the men in the north camp weren't involved in the Rising but were rounded up anyway........wonder if they got involved after their incarceration?

                    oops lost my link!

                    In an overcrowded, smoke-filled and damp wood cabin, young men sit listening to their seniors. They hear of how and why Ireland must be cut free from the British Empire. They listen intently and conspire to hit British authorities in Ireland with sporadic attacks when they are eventually released from this make-shift prison camp. The seeds of the Irish War of Independence are being sown in a remote Welsh valley. This is Frongoch - the University of Revolution.
                    Last edited by KatieMorag; 14-12-2017, 11:38 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
                      Not sure what their status was.....Damn or Eireann Ascendant will probably know. From what I can gather, the military under General Maxwell took responsibility for punishing the rebels; there were either 160 or 183 (depending on source) "trials" (ie courts martial) and nearly 2,000 men and women deported to England or Wales so I guess some of them were "imprisoned" but most were "interned", if you want to be picky.......
                      Nothing to do with being 'picky' - it's a genuine question. Did they get a hearing, did they get a trial.. or were they simply identified as being Volunteers out during the Rising by the DMP and shipped off to the mainland ?
                      Last edited by cogito; 15-12-2017, 03:37 AM.
                      Everything is self-evident.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cogito View Post
                        Nothing to do with being 'picky' - it's a genuine question. Did they get a hearing, did they get a trial.. or were they simply identified as being Volunteers out during the Rising by the DMP and shipped off to the mainland ?
                        think it was a mixture; some had been tried - by court-martial - some of those were sentenced to death and had then had that changed to imprisonment. Others were just shipped off without any kind of hearing, including the ones Collins refers to as "innocent" of any involvement in the Rising........but I'm no expert, someone else might know more........and I wasn't really being serious when I called you "picky"!

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                        • #13
                          The Rebranding of Sinn Fein

                          The name "Sinn Fein" has been subject to a lot of confusion over the years. In 1916, the Easter Rising was referred to as "The Sinn Fein Rebellion" by the authorities, the press and the public, and even before the Rising, all non-constitutional nationalists appear to have been known as "Sinn Feiners". However, Arthur Griffith's original Sinn Fein party was not involved in the events of April 1916; indeed, Griffith himself was firmly opposed to the insurrection and, along with Bulmer Hobson and Eoin MacNeill, did all he could to prevent it.
                          Sinn Fein - or "Ourselves Alone" - started life as one of a number of Nationalist pressure groups in Ireland in the early years of the 20th century. It was, in fact, an amalgamation of several groups, including Griffith's own "Cumann na nGaedhael" (Tribe of the Gaels) and Bulmer Hobson's mainly Ulster-based Dungannon Clubs. Griffith was not in favour of armed rebellion; he believed that the only way for Ireland to achieve independence was through a policy of passive resistance. This would entail a withdrawal from Westminster and the establishment of an Irish assembly. He was no Republican, either: he wanted Ireland to be part of a "Dual Monarchy" under the British Crown, using the Hungarian nationalists of the 1860s as his model. He also favoured the revival of the Celtic language and culture and making Ireland economically self-sufficient. He produced a paper, also called "Sinn Fein" from 1906 until 1914 when it was banned. The party won 15 seats in the Dublin local elections of 1908, but did not win the North Leitrim by-election.
                          After the Rising, Sinn Fein was re-organised with a new constitution and its numbers grew considerably. Eamonn de Valera was elected as its president and in 1918 the party won 73 seats at Westminster. The Irish MPs refused to take their seats at Westminster, in line with the policy of Griffith's original party. However there was to be no "Dual Monarchy" and the new Dail Eirann declared Ireland as an independent republic.

                          Source: History Today

                          Last edited by KatieMorag; 24-01-2018, 05:34 PM.

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                          • #14
                            more about the origins of Sinn Fein

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
                              lol just noticed the writer (a Dubliner) mentions the phantom GPO steps in the article!
                              Yeah...The imaginary steps huh...
                              We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

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