Dolores & Paverotti: Ave Maria

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

I mean no disrespect to Dolores DW, she is good at her own type of music, in fact very good. But you have to approach each type of music in its own way. This is religious music and requires vocal discipline, you can't just slide up to notes like she did.

I wholley understand what you're saying ....it really is a case of horses for courses.

[Vico2]

Vico, I wanted to say that too but didn't want to sound disrespectful. Great pop singer but should have had some training before attempting classical - you could see her straining to reach those notes......to sing classically you need breath control and to be able to get above the notes instead of "sliding up" to them......not singing from the throat as my teacher used to say. Dolores had the potential to do all that but imo should have had some proper training. And regarding electronic gizmos......if you're classically trained you don't need them......it's about projecting the voice as an instrument in its own right.

Katie you are correct in everything you said. It is also necessary to pitch your note right into the centre of the sound stem, not below and sliding up. In pop that is not generally done, people have all sorts of vocal frolics, and that is accepted in that genre. But in classical, you don't have that freedom.

If you consider music like another language. Language is broken down into several sub sets, irish, English, French and lots more. Each language has its own construction, own grammar and idioms. They do overlap in some languages such as the Romance languages as they all came from Latin. However, there are still huge difference between them and even more differences with non Romance languages like Russian, Chinese and many others. So if you want to speak a language you learn the rules of that particular language, and to think in that language. You can't think in your own language and transliterate, that won't work.

So imagine that each music genre is a different language, pop, folk, jazz, classical etc. You can't transliterate here either. DWT you put it well - horses for courses.

All that said Cogs, thank you for your sensitive reply.

[Vico2]

I'm trying to imagine Pav attempting ' Combine Harvester ' .

It would probably be very funny Twobob

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

No worries Vico - it was me that was being too precious, not yourself.

hope you dont feel ive hijacked yer thread.....

Mind you it seems to have opened it up and kept it alive if nothing else.

On the D O'R front (rip) must say I wasnt aware she had died.....in fact she didnt figure largely on any of my radars tbh.

Not that her untimely death would change my opinion on what she sang or how she sang it......nor my opinion on her past outrageous behaviour.....not exactly a great example for a public icon .....to say nothing of her hypocricy.....her in your face femminist stance.......nor her prima donna attitude.....but sure who's perfect ?.

Then again..I never got to sing with Pavarotti......

Though when i went to see him in the Albert Hall .....he sang so beautifully....I just had to join in ........needless to say..... Luciano wasn't very happy !!!

There we are now...I spose all thats opened it up even further.......

[KatieMorag]

I actually felt for Dolores when I was watching her.......apart from producing a fuller, more fluid sound, singing the way Vico and I have described is so much better for your voice, and once you have the technical ability it's so much easier, whatever you're singing......you don't have to make strenuous efforts to reach the notes and if you have the correct breathing techniques, using your diaphragm etc., you can hold the notes without your voice wobbling all over the place. Dolores did have a unique voice, but her performance would definitely have been enhanced from some technical groundwork......I don't really know why she didn't have it, or why it wasn't suggested to her.

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

great stuff there d.t,...great family history.
I had an aunt r.i.p ,who used to sing in 'our ladies choral society ' , I think she may have had a 'lead' voice if that's the right expression ? , I only heard her sing once that was at my sisters wedding in 1950s and she sang the ave maria. ...a bit too young to appreciate it then.

It was the genrations of culture.....they all entertained eack other with party piece songs or recitals or instruments.....they copied what they heard ...and what they heard was proper quality 'real' music if ye like......to us 50s kids it was al a bit hicky until we opened our minds a little bit.....

Though beauty IS indeed in the eye of the beholder.......the 60s kinda killed off a lot of 'real' classical music ...Only my opinion mindja.....so hope no nasty letters lol......Video Killed The Radio Star eh ?.

[KatieMorag]

It was the genrations of culture.....they all entertained eack other with party piece songs or recitals or instruments.....they copied what they heard ...and what they heard was proper quality 'real' music if ye like......to us 50s kids it was al a bit hicky until we opened our minds a little bit.....

Though beauty IS indeed in the eye of the beholder.......the 60s kinda killed off a lot of 'real' classical music ...Only my opinion mindja.....so hope no nasty letters lol......Video Killed The Radio Star eh ?.

"making our own entertainment" as my Dad used to say......used to drive me mad!

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

I actually felt for Dolores when I was watching her.......apart from producing a fuller, more fluid sound, singing the way Vico and I have described is so much better for your voice, and once you have the technical ability it's so much easier, whatever you're singing......you don't have to make strenuous efforts to reach the notes and if you have the correct breathing techniques, using your diaphragm etc., you can hold the notes without your voice wobbling all over the place. Dolores did have a unique voice, but her performance would definitely have been enhanced from some technical groundwork......I don't really know why she didn't have it, or why it wasn't suggested to her.

Indeed.....and like a lot of pop singers I cant find any info on her ever taking singing lessons......she auditioned and was given the job.....fair play to her.....but i really have no interest in what she sang.......and dare I say it.....there is no excuse for wthe mayhem she was sectioned for.....whoever you 'think' you might be......god's gift or no.

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

"making our own entertainment" as my Dad used to say......used to drive me mad!

I loved it...all of it....the regular hoolies in the house....the quality of the voices.....the wit.....the simple yet rich self entertainment......Peopleknew ppl by "their" song......the bottles of stout....the taste of it "to kil the worms" dontcha know......the turf / log fire....even coal on a good pay week.....th extended family feeling....the craic....and laughter.........i can hear it all right now......not a pot to pin....but we were happy kids for all of it......I think your Da was right :-)

[KatieMorag]

It was still annoying. Every generation thinks they know best. I could just as easily say to my kids: "What do you want to be playing with that aul' playstation Why don't you play a record like we used to?" But I wouldn't.....cos I know how flamin' annoying it is......

[KatieMorag]

Indeed.....and like a lot of pop singers I cant find any info on her ever taking singing lessons......she auditioned and was given the job.....fair play to her.....but i really have no interest in what she sang.......and dare I say it.....there is no excuse for wthe mayhem she was sectioned for.....whoever you 'think' you might be......god's gift or no.

Can't agree with you there Damn, anyone suffering from a mental illness needs compassion not condemnation......

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

It was still annoying. Every generation thinks they know best. I could just as easily say to my kids: "What do you want to be playing with that aul' playstation Why don't you play a record like we used to?" But I wouldn't.....cos I know how flamin' annoying it is......

Oh it annoyed me too when the oul man knocked pop as not being music...he wasnt farfrom the truth.....hs and my opinion would be identical today where rap is concerned .......absolute C - rap.:-)

[cosmo]

Can't agree with you there Damn, anyone suffering from a mental illness needs compassion not condemnation......

sometime its very hard to identify someone with a depressive state of mind or drug influencied or personal problems ie relationships , and we make observations on what we see ...and what we see is not always what we get , she did have a very unique and distinctive voice...but obviously a troubled persona.

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

Can't agree with you there Damn, anyone suffering from a mental illness needs compassion not condemnation......

I understand what you mean....but I dont quite condemn her ...but her behaviour.....ad bless her she should have sought help... instead of spitting at and headbutting a police officer and abusing airline staff.....the excuse ......doesnt mention mental illness per se......that diagnosis came later....her excuse was she was stressed out after living in hotels in New York.

IM THE QUEEN OF LIMERICK !!!!! I PAY YOUR WAGES........
What a "do you know who I am" gobshite.

I know...I know.....dont speak ill of the dead....but dear Dolores created this Wiki report all by herself.....I simpl report it here as I see it.

Read This andtell me its how a depressed bi polar person would behave......

QUOTE WIKI;
In November 2014, O'Riordan was arrested and charged in connection with*air rage*on an*Aer Lingus*flight from New York to*Shannon. During the flight she grew verbally and physically abusive with crew. When police were arresting her after landing, she resisted, reminding them her taxes paid their wages and shouting "I'm the Queen of Limerick! I'm an icon!", headbutting one*Garda*officer and spitting at another.[45]*Later she told the media that she had been stressed from living in New York hotels following the end of her 20-year marriage.[46]*The judge hearing her case agreed to dismiss all charges if she apologised in writing to those she injured and contributed €6,000 to the court*poor box.

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

I understand what you mean....but I dont quite condemn her ...but her behaviour.....ad bless her she should have sought help... instead of spitting at and headbutting a police officer and abusing airline staff.....the excuse ......doesnt mention mental illness per se......that diagnosis came later....her excuse was she was stressed out after living in hotels in New York.

IM THE QUEEN OF LIMERICK !!!!! I PAY YOUR WAGES........
What a "do you know who I am" gobshite.

I know...I know.....dont speak ill of the dead....but dear Dolores created this Wiki report all by herself.....I simpl report it here as I see it.

Read This andtell me its how a depressed bi polar person would behave......

QUOTE WIKI;
In November 2014, O'Riordan was arrested and charged in connection with*air rage*on an*Aer Lingus*flight from New York to*Shannon. During the flight she grew verbally and physically abusive with crew. When police were arresting her after landing, she resisted, reminding them her taxes paid their wages and shouting "I'm the Queen of Limerick! I'm an icon!", headbutting one*Garda*officer and spitting at another.[45]*Later she told the media that she had been stressed from living in New York hotels following the end of her 20-year marriage.[46]*The judge hearing her case agreed to dismiss all charges if she apologised in writing to those she injured and contributed €6,000 to the court*poor box.

MONEY TALKS.....the rest of us would have been locked up....