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  • #61
    Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
    cheek......gonna report you on t'laundry thread.......
    Lovely biscuits.....yer still me fave
    We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

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    • #62
      daingean

      is this the thread about children being abused in institutions ?????

      or the laugh a minute thread

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      • #63
        Originally posted by antmel View Post
        is this the thread about children being abused in institutions ????? or the laugh a minute thread
        I met a stranger at an after party a few years ago......he was a truck driver......he was brought up in Kilkenny.....he was a bit wayward.....while being brought up by his grandparents.....his Ma was working away in UK......He was eventually locked up in a number of institutions like Danesfort run by the Rosminians
        http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/UptonIS/ They were brutal and admitted it
        Statement by the Rosminians – 9th September 2015. The publication today of the Review of Safeguarding Practice in the Rosminians, by the National Board for Safeguarding Children (NBSCCCI), is an opportunity to restate our absolute commitment to safeguarding children now and into the future. We take this opportunity to thank the members of NBSCCCI, who carried out this independent review. We Rosminians acknowledge our failures in the past, which regrettably contributed to the suffering caused to many children and families. We take this opportunity to again unreservedly apologise to all those who were abused while in our care. We commit ourselves to working with former residents and supporting them as best we can in the continuing healing process. The review published today rightly highlights our failings in the past. It covers complaints reported from 1975 to date, and includes allegations dating back some 70 years to the 1940’s. The Review acknowledges the work we have done in more recent years, in doing all that is possible to safeguard children. We note that in its Review the National Board recognizes the work undertaken by the Rosminians in relation to safeguarding. The Review states that : “The safeguarding profile of the Rosminians as measured against the NBSCCCI standards in 2015 is very good, with the majority of criteria assessed as fully met”. “The reviewers have seen evidence that (the Rosminians) have invested time and resources in victim/survivor support at a number of levels”.
        We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

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        • #64
          Originally posted by antmel View Post
          is this the thread about children being abused in institutions ?????

          or the laugh a minute thread
          Very sad way you victims have been treated ..and as you can see it is still going on....

          ''the little Irelanders'' care little about you.....
          Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by cogito View Post
            You do have the knowledge - it's your claim that the entire blame was down to two individuals I'd take issue with.

            There was a surplus of piety in this state right from it's foundation - the very first ambassador we appointed was to the Vatican and that was under a Cumann na nGael government.

            Dev and McQuaid bear a large level of responsibility for the backward way the country developed - but they had plenty of accomplices.
            So i take it apart from the appointment of the first ambassador to the Vatican......and Dev and McQuaids lackeys

            You would agree they Dev and McQuaid were the leading architects of church power.....that they were the principal players in writing religious subjugation into the Irish constituation after independence.

            If not, can you please explain why not without being vague.
            We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
              So i take it apart from the appointment of the first ambassador to the Vatican......and Dev and McQuaids lackeys

              You would agree they Dev and McQuaid were the leading architects of church power.....that they were the principal players in writing religious subjugation into the Irish constituation after independence.

              If not, can you please explain why not without being vague.
              There's a difference between 'leading', 'principal'.... and 'entire'. That's not vague.
              Everything is self-evident.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by cogito View Post
                There's a difference between 'leading', 'principal'.... and 'entire'. That's not vague.
                Splitting hairs is no substitute for reasoning......I'll convince the reader in print if i have to.....but can you give me some reasons as to why you will not accept that those two didnt actually do the typing.....they had lackeys and gofors....but i can tell you that Dev was in sole control of what happened and when it came to it both he and McQ were 100% responsible for the marriage of state n church.....

                One good reason would be enough to aid your opinion instead of barracking the question lol
                We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                  Splitting hairs is no substitute for reasoning......I'll convince the reader in print if i have to.....but can you give me some reasons as to why you will not accept that those two didnt actually do the typing.....they had lackeys and gofors....but i can tell you that Dev was in sole control of what happened and when it came to it both he and McQ were 100% responsible for the marriage of state n church.....

                  One good reason would be enough to aid your opinion instead of barracking the question lol
                  Perhaps it's time for some references rather than I refer my reference books.....google's so much quicker.

                  There are two possible reasons for the enlargement of the original draft. It may have resulted from submissions of draft articles by the Irish province of the Jesuits, through Fr Edward Cahill, and, more substantially, owing to a deluge of material sent in by Fr John Charles McQuaid, a Holy Ghost Father from Blackrock College and future archbishop of Dublin. As strict secrecy surrounded the drafting process—with de Valera not even confiding in his cabinet—both sources could only have been made aware of the clandestine drafting process on de Valera’s personal authorisation. It is possible that the secretary of external affairs, Joseph Walshe, may also have been employed to act as a contact.

                  Entire ?....call it what you like.....with no part left out; whole.
                  complete, total, full, not broken, damaged, or decayed.intact, unbroken, undamaged, unharmed, unimpaired, unflawed, unscathed, unspoilt, unmutilated, unblemished, unmarked, perfect, inviolate,
                  We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                    Perhaps it's time for some references rather than I refer my reference books.....google's so much quicker.

                    There are two possible reasons for the enlargement of the original draft. It may have resulted from submissions of draft articles by the Irish province of the Jesuits, through Fr Edward Cahill, and, more substantially, owing to a deluge of material sent in by Fr John Charles McQuaid, a Holy Ghost Father from Blackrock College and future archbishop of Dublin. As strict secrecy surrounded the drafting process—with de Valera not even confiding in his cabinet—both sources could only have been made aware of the clandestine drafting process on de Valera’s personal authorisation. It is possible that the secretary of external affairs, Joseph Walshe, may also have been employed to act as a contact.

                    Entire ?....call it what you like.....with no part left out; whole.
                    complete, total, full, not broken, damaged, or decayed.intact, unbroken, undamaged, unharmed, unimpaired, unflawed, unscathed, unspoilt, unmutilated, unblemished, unmarked, perfect, inviolate,
                    Bunreacht na hÉireann may be described as de Valera’s constitution, although he lacked the legal skills to draft the document alone. He handed over that task initially to the Constitution Committee of 1934, a small body of civil servants: Stephen Roche, secretary of the Department of Justice; Michael McDunphy, assistant secretary, Department of the President; John Hearne, the legal adviser at the Department of External Affairs; and Phillip O’Donoghue, legal assistant to the attorney-general. The available evidence suggests that the calibre of those men was very high, that they were independent-minded, strong-willed, very experienced and entered upon their task with diffidence.
                    Their report was comprehensive; de Valera reviewed it on 30 April 1935, and two days later instructed Hearne to prepare draft heads for a new constitution. The choice of Hearne was not unusual: de Valera was also external affairs minister and had attended numerous League of Nations sessions with Hearne, who may have drafted the president’s notable 1932 speech at Geneva. Hearne had been heavily involved in drafting constitutional amendments early in de Valera’s first term of office.

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                    • #70
                      The thread is about institutions and those who ran and sanctioned them....religious in fact, with either nuns, priests or brothers in charge....all given the go ahead by Mr deValera and his Fianna Fail cronies including the future maniacal Archbishop of Dublin John Charles Joseph McQuaid....we can add all schools and hospitals and charities of the day.....with the de valera constitution of 1937 rubber stamping the lot.

                      This book shows that he (Dev) even went as far, in earlier official drafts, of having the constitution recognise the Catholic Church as the one true church, which went far beyond the eventual wording, which simply recognised its special position because of the number of its adherents. He was also prepared to contemplate making contraception unconstitutional, as well as illegal. He appears to have taken special notice of contributions by a close friend, the future Archbishop of Dublin, John Charles McQuaid and by Fr Edward Cahill, a Limerick Jesuit of strong Fianna Fail sympathies.

                      When he eventually decided to drop the "one true church" references, de Valera sent the Secretary of the Department of External Affairs to Rome to explain this to Cardinal Pacelli, the future Pope. Pacelli dismissed the alternative "special position" wording as of no value, but said the Church would remain publicly silent on the matter, which it did.

                      The making of the Irish Constitution 1937.......
                      Dermot Keogh and Andrew J McCarthy
                      We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by cogito View Post
                        You do have the knowledge - it's your claim that the entire blame was down to two individuals I'd take issue with.

                        There was a surplus of piety in this state right from it's foundation - the very first ambassador we appointed was to the Vatican and that was under a Cumann na nGael government.

                        Dev and McQuaid bear a large level of responsibility for the backward way the country developed - but they had plenty of accomplices.
                        Your 'vague' reply has to do with the two reasons you put forward as proof of argument that Dev was not 'entirely' responsible with McQuaid for marrying church and state. You take issue, yet offer the following two vague and lame reasons as proof of why you take issue....can you do a little better than that pse ?.

                        1. A surplus of piety in this state right from it's foundation

                        2. The very first ambassador we appointed was to the Vatican and that was under a Cumann na nGael government.

                        Well if that's not a vague and lame argument I don't know what is.

                        Can you please produce some convincing facts to back up your claims ?.

                        I repeat Dev along with McQuaid particularly was ENTIRELY responsible in tying church and state together in the constitution of 1937.

                        Something which had absolutely nothing to do whatever with CnaG sending the first ambassador to the Vatican.
                        We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                          Splitting hairs is no substitute for reasoning......I'll convince the reader in print if i have to.....but can you give me some reasons as to why you will not accept that those two didnt actually do the typing.....they had lackeys and gofors....but i can tell you that Dev was in sole control of what happened and when it came to it both he and McQ were 100% responsible for the marriage of state n church.....

                          One good reason would be enough to aid your opinion instead of barracking the question lol
                          It could be argued that reason and logic come from exactly that... splitting hairs. Ask any mathematician...

                          You want some reasons as to why I don't accept your claim that two individuals bore the entire blame for what occurred in institutions like Daingean ? For starters Daingean had been in existence since the late 19th century run by the Oblate Order - not the Christian Brothers as I think someone mentioned earlier. Are you really suggesting that abuse in that place only commenced when de Valera and McQuaid got their constitution into place in 1937 ?

                          I've already agreed that these two individuals had a large and dominating influence on the way this state developed inwardly during much of the 20th century - but they were working on fertile ground.
                          Everything is self-evident.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            [QUOTE]
                            Originally posted by cogito View Post
                            It could be argued that reason and logic come from exactly that... splitting hairs. Ask any mathematician...
                            Dev was one of them....he split hairs to win arguments when he couldn't get his way.......Like after the most important vote of the century went against him he said "The Irish people have no right to be wrong" what a cock he was.

                            You want some reasons as to why I don't accept your claim that two individuals bore the entire blame for what occurred in institutions like Daingean ?
                            No...that was not the dispute....you've moved the goal post I SAID HE WAS SOLEY RESPONSIBLE FOR MARRYING CHURCH AND STATE...daingean....although wrapped up in it....is in this case a separate issue

                            For starters Daingean had been in existence since the late 19th century run by the Oblate Order - not the Christian Brothers as I think someone mentioned earlier. Are you really suggesting that abuse in that place only commenced when de Valera and McQuaid got their constitution into place in 1937 ?
                            No...never mentioned it except to say most all those places and schools and hospitals and charities were religious in nature.
                            Please don't muddy the waters with chaff....and we can go back to Houses of Correction soon.
                            I've already agreed that these two individuals had a large and dominating influence on the way this state developed inwardly during much of the 20th century - but they were working on fertile ground.
                            The ground was fertile indeed, I wouldn't dispute that.......But after Mr deValera decided to re-write the constitution from top to bottom.....he was the dictator of all that went in there .....advised YES and aided by McQuaid big time YES....Yet he alone ...Dev dictated what went in it.......and that's the point I am making...

                            Do you disagree with that ??????? If so why or how....and we can go from there.....
                            Last edited by DAMNTHEWEATHER; 24-10-2017, 01:39 AM.
                            We'll sail be the tide....aarghhhh !!

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by quinner View Post
                              I believe the Catholic Church were employed by the Irish Government to do their ''Dirty Work''.....
                              Originally posted by DAMNTHEWEATHER View Post
                              You have Dev and McQuaid te thank for all of that... The biggest pair of 'baggage carrying' feckin maniacs who ever got to the positions of running a country and a religion...both brainwashed and mentally damaged arseholes imo.
                              It was the British Government in the Industrial Schools Act of 1868 who handed over the running of these institutions in Ireland to the Catholic Church, paid for out of the public coffer.

                              The Free State government took up the reins in 1921 after independence.
                              Everything is self-evident.

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                              • #75
                                The rapists and sadists got away with their evil deeds.....because they had friends in ''high places''.....
                                Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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