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Originally posted by joan mack
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Nobody called here yet, but they will get an ear full if they do -
Well Vico I asked him why he was canvassing for the repeal and he brought out the old chestnut about women being raped and I said there is always the morning after pill which works much longer then the morning after, He had never heard of the morning after pillComment
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Yes Joan that is something I don't understand. I have made the same point to people who look blank. If you are unfortunate enough to have that happen to you, quite apart from the possibility of pregnancy, you need to go to a hospital and get washed out properly, just in case the item that raped you has some STD. The Well Women, I am told are great if you are in that position. There is help out there. People are sympathetic and understanding and will help. So I don't accept it as an excuse for abortion.Originally posted by joan mack View PostComment
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I am anti abortion but I ask myself what if my Mother,Sister,Wife,Daughter,told me that they were pregnant and their life was in danger if they were to have the baby. What would I do would I be a hypocrite and tell them to have an abortion or would I say put your life in danger and have the baby.Comment
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Can I ask the mod team why this article has been moved here? I'm not disputing the fact that this lady's death was a tragic event, but I don't really see its relevance to the Repeal referendum as her termination was carried out at 22 weeks, far later than the 12 week limit proposed in the new Irish legislation so she'd still have had to go to the UK for it - am I missing something?Comment
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I can see exactly where you are coming from Rasher. I am open to contradiction on this from anybody who is more knowledgeable about medicine, but as I understand it, if you are properly cared for by the doctor/hospital all the way along, it should not really arise. That Indian lady who died last year, was not properly cared for by the hospital. She had a serious infection which was not tested for. Then when finally it was tested for, it was diagnosed, but the results of the tests were not given to the doctor until a day or two afterwards, during which time the infection was getting worse. If she had been cared for as she should have been, she would not have died.Originally posted by rasher View Post
A lot of doctors are overworked and tired and in some cases the hospitals are understaffed. Those are conditions that are fertile for error. Any way you look at it, it is a tragic situation.
I think mainly what people worry about here Rasher is an attitudinal change over a period towards the fact that an unborn baby is still a little life form. I hear a lot of people saying that it is a woman's body and she has the right to decide. But they conveniently leave out that inside the woman's body is another tiny little body who cannot speak for itself. Who protects the silent life.
I had an aunt who was very conservative, she was of her time, born in 1903. When contraception became legal she was horrified as we reckoned she would be. But when she explained why, she made me think. She began by claiming that more children would be born out of wedlock. This seemed to me to be a contradiction. Then she went on to explain that once contraception was available unmarried people would use it, but then if they got used to having sex at the weekend say, it would become the norm for them. Then some day they would not have a contraceptive with them, or maybe didn't have the cash to buy one at that time. She felt that in those circumstances that would still proceed because it had become the norm for a Saturday night. Over time what would change would be attitude.
Now it was no harm for a lot of attitudes from that era to change. But I do understand what she meant, and I think it could happen here too. Just my two and sixpence worthComment
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Everything is self-evident.Comment
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I take your point Vico but surely it's not as black and white as that? Of course rape should be reported straight away and of course there is support out there but it's not that simple. I've never been the victim of a sexual assault so I don't have a clue what it's like to be in that position but I doubt that if I had been I would be thinking clearly, or have the presence of mind or the inclination to nip down the chemist for the morning-after pill. I'd imagine a lot of women in that situation would be confused, traumatised, in denial or wondering whether they were in some way to blame, or that they wouldn't be believed. And many women - myself included - find "intimate" examinations embarrassing at the best of times, so it must be a hundred times worse if you've been raped.Originally posted by Vico2 View PostComment
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Vico re medical reasons for an abortion, are you talking about Savita Halappanavar? As I understand it the fetus was non-viable when she requested an abortion but she was denied one because her life "was not in danger." Regardless of whether or not she was judged to be in danger, and regardless of medical negligence, surely the fact that the pregnancy was already doomed would have indicated that the pregnancy be immediately terminated? What on earth is the point of maintaining a pregnancy that's going to fail anyway?Comment
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A thousand times worse if your having an abortion Katie you don't think they can perform it through your clothes, As to the Morning after pill it is viable for a while longer then the morning after so I am sure after the trauma you would be advised about it.
Just heartbreaking to see babies thrown out with the garbage just because its not convenient to have one right now. If its not convenient take precautions
I have a son whose girlfriend had an abortion and it wrecked his life, He was so delighted at the news but heartbroken when he heard what she had decided.
Of course it also broke up the relationship which had been going on for years
He still talks about how old the child would be now etc. It was aborted at twelve weeks, We had all begun to look forward to the coming event. Sad thing is that the girlfriend is now in her forties and has never conceived againComment
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The girlfriend clearly wasn't "looking forward to the event"..........Comment
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It is sad from his point of view, but that does not mean he had any right to decide whether or not the girlfriend should continue with the pregnancy.
Same goes for the other side of the divide, too - it annoys the hell out of me when men try to pressure their girlfriends/daughters into having an abortion. It should be the woman's decision alone, but whatever she decides she should have the support of the men in her life. If they can't provide that, they should butt out.Comment
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Katie I can see where you are coming from on this. Of course there will be trauma attached to rape and sometimes both parties (I am not saying this in judgment) have had a few too many and the girl may not be thinking straight. I accept all of that absolutely. But it's not a matter of nipping to the chemist, you need to see a doctor, go to a hospital, the Well Woman, whatever, they deal with the physical, but they also deal with the emotional trauma. It would be interesting to see the statistics on how many abortions in the UK per performed because of rape.Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
I know two people who had abortions in the sixties. One of them decided to have another, only she aborted naturally. She had a very active sex life in the days when that was not the norm. She had three pregnancies by the age of 24 and on the last one, she did not know who the father was as there were a number of people it could have been. She and her various partners, never bothered to try any form of contraception. She was not in any way emotionally disturbed and depressed about the abortion. Her attitude was she did not want another child. She had one already adopted in the UK. The fact that the baby was a life meant nothing at all to her.
The other woman tried out the hippie lifestyle because she was not happy at home, so she left. She was pressured by the father and the rest of the group to have the abortion. She went along and after it was done, while still in the clinic the nurse found her crying and asked why. She explained that she did not really want to kill her child, even though she would not have been able to keep and care for the baby. The nurse told her that if she had expressed any doubt at all about proceeding with abortion, they would not have done it. It sounds like not too many questions were asked in the clinic.
Now that is a long time ago. She still has not recovered emotionally from the event. Years later she got married (not to the father of the child) and had three lovely and thankfully healthy children. She is a lovely person and an excellent mother to her children. But even after all the years, she cries over the baby she killed.
You are right, it is not straightforward at allComment
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