Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Repealing the Eighth...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Based on what Bo says about the previous referendum and what Barefoot says about Catholic teaching still being followed by many if not most people, I'm wondering how much support there is for this repeal, and what the early indications are as to the result, percentage and demographic-wise; anyone got any idea?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
      But in the medical profession there's probably more younger people, who might not feel the same.
      I know over here it used to be the case that Catholics could opt out of performing abortions - not sure if that's still the case. So they might put something similar in place in Ireland.
      My Brother is a nurse in Worcester and he opted out of abortions . BTW, he is not a Catholic .

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by milo View Post
        Hi. Good to see the forum is going strong.
        And welcome again Milo , good to see you posting .

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
          But in the medical profession there's probably more younger people, who might not feel the same.
          Well this is it Katie....the young midwives and obstetricians in Ireland study and work hard to provide a safe environment for mother and baby during childbirth. That study and subsequent qualification does not include abortion on demand. It's not what the have signed up for.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
            I don't really understand your point about the loss to society - putting aside the moral arguments, surely the benefits to society - financial, social, etc., and to the women concerned - would be greater than the disadvantages? And unwanted pregnancies are already prevented through contraception anyway - in purely practical terms, and again leaving aside the moral arguments, early abortion would just be an extension of family planning, which i would say anyone with an ounce of sense is in agreement with.....
            I mean all the children that would not be born if we bring in abortion . I cant look at it coldly and clinically and accept that because they were aborted for practical or economical reasons , that they never born in this world and therefore should not be recognised as a loss to mankind .
            Another consequences that I noticed is after a number of years where abortion is permitted in a country , the average citizen seems to be desensitised to it .
            They seem aghast when they hear of the restrictions here , and Amnesty International and the UN have found against Ireland for infringing a so called human rights violation . How we got here as a society in such a short time ?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by bojangles View Post
              My Brother is a nurse in Worcester and he opted out of abortions . BTW, he is not a Catholic .
              thanks bo........I wasn't sure if it was only on religious grounds or even if it was still the case......you've answered both questions.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by bojangles View Post
                I mean all the children that would not be born if we bring in abortion . I cant look at it coldly and clinically and accept that because they were aborted for practical or economical reasons , that they never born in this world and therefore should not be recognised as a loss to mankind .
                Another consequences that I noticed is after a number of years where abortion is permitted in a country , the average citizen seems to be desensitised to it .
                They seem aghast when they hear of the restrictions here , and Amnesty International and the UN have found against Ireland for infringing a so called human rights violation . How we got here as a society in such a short time ?
                Believe me Bo I do see your point, I was vehemently anti-abortion for most of my life, but in recent years I've mellowed a bit on early abortion. For me an important point is that there has always been and always will be abortion, whether we like it or not, and making it legal and freely available at least makes it safe.
                I think the crux of the matter, and why it's such a difficult subject to talk about, is that people differ widely in their idea of when human life begins, and how lives should be prioritised: should an eight-week embryo, which isn't fully developed and isn't even aware of its existence, be given priority over a woman whose life is going to be affected in all sorts of ways should she continue with the pregnancy? Is "life" in this context purely an academic concept? I think this should be the starting point for any discussion on this subject because everybody has different views on what "life" actually means and those differences should be explored.

                Comment


                • #38
                  If life ends when the heart stops beating then maybe life starts with the first heartbeat....

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by barefoot View Post
                    If life ends when the heart stops beating then maybe life starts with the first heartbeat....
                    that's 22 days after conception, ie at 5 weeks (dating pregnancy from the lmp.)
                    So very early on in the pregnancy.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I do not discuss this issue usually, have always been against abortion for me as a person, but I will never try to force my views on to anyone else, I would travel with friends if needed and respect their choice.

                      I need to see the wording of this referendum in order to make the correct choice.

                      I have no interest in how others feel as debating it will not alter how I feel.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by bigby View Post
                        I do not discuss this issue usually, have always been against abortion for me as a person, but I will never try to force my views on to anyone else, I would travel with friends if needed and respect their choice.

                        I need to see the wording of this referendum in order to make the correct choice.

                        I have no interest in how others feel as debating it will not alter how I feel.
                        I must admit I'm very glad I don't live in Ireland. I would feel compelled to vote in favour if repeal, even if I'm not sure I'd be able to have an abortion myself (if I was of child-bearing age, that is!) I just don't think it's up to me to impose my feelings on other women, similar to what you say Bigby. But I would have some qualms about it......... In all honesty, I think if I was in Ireland I'd be tempted not to vote at all.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
                          that's 22 days after conception, ie at 5 weeks (dating pregnancy from the lmp.)
                          So very early on in the pregnancy.
                          Yes around 6 weeks Katie.

                          I just read up on the 1967 Abortion Act in the UK. Abortion was allowed up until 28 weeks gestation. This was reduced to 24 weeks gestation in 1990.

                          Abortion on demand is not available in the UK....

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by barefoot View Post
                            Yes around 6 weeks Katie.

                            I just read up on the 1967 Abortion Act in the UK. Abortion was allowed up until 28 weeks gestation. This was reduced to 24 weeks gestation in 1990.

                            Abortion on demand is not available in the UK....
                            Knew it had been reduced because of premature babies surviving earlier.
                            Not sure of all the laws......l.have you got a link BF?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
                              that's 22 days after conception, ie at 5 weeks (dating pregnancy from the lmp.)
                              So very early on in the pregnancy.
                              That is correct Katie, the heart beat can be detected quite early on. I am anti abortion, not on religious grounds. To me it is murder, a woman is murdering her own child, and the child cannot do much to fight back. If somebody were to murder a one month old baby, they would be tried and incarcerated, why then should it be ok to murder a baby, who is live, but still in the womb.

                              I heard a well known Obstetrician from a London Hospital talking about the subject on Radio 4 years ago. He said that if a baby fights back very hard, he does not abort. I never thought about little embryos fighting for their life and I found his remark very disturbing. He had nothing against abortion itself, but felt it would be unethical to abort a baby that is fighting for his little life.

                              At the time of the last referendum on the subject, my son came home from school very distressed. Their religion teacher had brought in a video of a child being aborted. I don't know what they do now, but in those days they used a saline solution, and there was some other way to do it also. Sorry I cannot remember what it was, but the main point is that the child was being burned. Apparently it could not be performed painlessly. So the baby is not just being killed, but tortured. At all the debates, it is about the mother taking a decision re her own body, but what about the baby's body. Who stands up for him, when he has no voice.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                An Act to amend and clarify the law relating to termination of pregnancy by registered medical practitioners.


                                I don't think the UK government gave it's people any choice regarding the Abortion Act in 1967...well apparently there was a lot of opposition to it at the time...

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X